E17 - Rundown 6 - The Cost of Indifference

Rainy Day Recess, Feb 24, 2025

See our Show Notes

[00:00:00] Christie Robertson: Welcome to Rainy Day Recess, where we study and discuss Seattle Public Schools. Thanks for joining us for our rundown. 

[00:00:10] Jasmine Pulido: Today we'll be covering several important developments, including the latest school board meeting from February 12th. 

[00:00:18] Christie Robertson: Before we dive in, I need to share that my perspective today is influenced in part by the legislative hearings that I've been watching. I've been watching a lot of hearings, and some of them are about restraint and isolation of kids in schools. This is the third year in a row that I've been watching basically the same hearings, and listening to stories of kids being subjected to these practices, and watching legislators turn away and decide that it's too hard to do anything about the situation.

Just for one example, at a hearing on February 11th, a high schooler talked about being zip tied to a chair as a five year old. And a parent from Burien talked about her seven year old with Down syndrome being placed in isolation for struggling with her mask.There are many, many, and far worse stories, and I recommend that everybody read the report on isolation and restraint that was prepared by the ACLU and Disability Rights Washington in 2023 that gives a good data analysis and description of the situation that we're in.

If you do want to follow any of these bills or communicate with your legislators about them, they are HB 1795 in the House and SB 5654 in the Senate (now dead). You can subscribe to get email alerts when anything happens to them and of course give your feedback. 

Rep. Pollet told me that he's been working on bills like this since 2015, and it makes you question your faith in the adults that are supposed to be protecting our children. And so I just want to be transparent about my state of mind coming into when I was writing this script out.

[00:02:06] Jasmine Pulido: Yeah, and you're seeing this as a kind of theme running through today's stories

[00:02:11] Christie Robertson: Yeah, I was just feeling like there's a lot of examples that I'm seeing of adult indifference to what's happening in our schools.

[00:02:23] Jasmine Pulido: Or even like the cycle of bringing up and talking about it and then doing nothing about it.

[00:02:29] Christie Robertson: Yes, totally.

[00:02:31] Jasmine Pulido: Should we use that as a lead into our first story?

[00:02:35] Christie Robertson: Yeah. 

Shooting at the Bridges and Interagency School at Roxhill

[00:02:35] Jasmine Pulido: Okay the first thing that we're going to talk about is the shooting at the Bridges and Interagency School at Roxhill on Monday, February 10th.

[00:02:44] Christie Robertson: So, this is not Roxhill Elementary. This is the old Roxhill building that the elementary school was moved out of. Now, that building houses some specialized programs – Bridges and Interagency. 

Bridges serves some young adults with disabilities. After they reach the age of 18, they enter this program and it focuses on helping them develop life and job skills. 

Interagency is an alternative high school for students who haven't thrived in traditional settings. 

These are two obviously very vulnerable groups of students, and the programs have historically been pretty neglected, and they were put together into this school that had actually been decommissioned, because it was determined to be past its useful life. These kids are already facing significant challenges and their school was literally caught in the crossfire.

[00:03:38] Jasmine Pulido: Here's what we know. Just before 1 p. m. Monday, February 10th, shots were fired near the 76 gas station at 30th and Roxbury. Witnesses reported seeing two sedans fleeing the area after more than a dozen bullets were fired.

[00:03:56] Christie Robertson: It sounds like more than 40 bullets have been recovered so far, and I'm still waiting for the incident report back from the police department.

[00:04:05] Jasmine Pulido: Some of those bullets hit the front of the school, shattered windows, and went into the cafeteria walls. The school went into lockdown, and thankfully, no students or staff were physically injured.

[00:04:17] Christie Robertson: But this wasn't just, like, a stray bullet or two, it was a barrage of gunfire, and bullets landed just feet away from staff's heads according to the reports. Yet, the district's response was really... well, they didn't say anything. There was a statement in some of the news stories saying that the school had not been “the intended target”, which kind of sounded like they were saying that made it not a big deal.

[00:04:35] Jasmine Pulido: Yeah, and they didn't mention it at Wednesday night's school board meeting either. Total silence. Nothing from Superintendent Jones and nothing from the board president, Gina Topp, who's also the board director for the district where the shooting took place. 

Superintendent Jones didn't even visit the school until Thursday afternoon, four days later. Director Rankin spent some time there on that Friday. But most school board directors haven't said anything, let alone visited. And, the news media has also barely covered this. 

[00:05:17] Christie Robertson: And my question is, what would the response have been if this had happened at another Seattle Public School? Would the district have mobilized? Would there have been a public outcry? Usually there's, like, a mobilization of counselors or something to the school. I can't help but feel like the lack of attention has something to do with which students are in this building.

[00:05:35] Jasmine Pulido: And that's not unfounded, Christie. For instance, when shootings happened in the North End in recent years, a lot of educators and friends I knew in the South End were rightfully angry, because shootings happen like this in the South End more frequently and don't get nearly as much coverage historically, if at all.

And if you recall, South Seattle has disproportionately larger amounts of BIPOC students (Black, Indigenous, and People of Color students), and low income students, because of racist policies, and property rights that are still in place, aka redlining. Then if you add the intersection of disability that is happening at this school, the erasure is happening on multiple levels.

If you're part of this school community and want to share your experience, reach out at hello@rainydayrecess.org. We want to hear from you.

[00:06:21]   Christie Robertson: One more note. This incident will be discussed  at a general meeting of the Seattle Council PTSA, which is happening tonight as this episode is releasing, Monday, February 24th.  Anyone is welcome. Interpretation is available and you can register for a Zoom link on their website.  

Okay, let's get into today's episode.

Public Testimony

[00:06:25] Christie Robertson: The first thing we're going to cover is the February 12th school board meeting, starting with public testimony.

[00:06:32] Jasmine Pulido: Particularly notable was how many of these testimonies were about highly capable services, or rather the lack of them. I counted 13 of the 25 testimonies were on this subject, or 52%. 

And it wasn't just highly capable services, we also heard powerful testimony about language barriers and the district's engagement with multilingual families. There were three testimonies about the impact of communities of color being left out of important information, conversations, and decisions.

[00:07:03] Christie Robertson: We also heard from several speakers, many from students at Madison Middle School, about the importance of librarians in our schools and to please not solve the budget crisis by cuts to library services.

Let's listen to some of what we heard. And note that these clips were edited for length and clarity. 

[00:07:20] Michelle Whalen: To cut librarians amounts to $2.7 million. It may seem like a lot, but that amounts to just 0.216% of the budget – not even a quarter of 1%. Yet in that 0.216% part of the budget, librarians add value to every aspect of student life with educational resources... You're keeping such a big thing for such a little amount. 

[00:07:49] Heather Hewlett: Many of us are... we're actually really excited about the neighborhood schools. And my son's story is that he started kindergarten in an SPS neighborhood school with a severe speech impediment. And his speech teacher was wonderful and got him to a really functioning student level. And we fell in love with our neighborhood school and tried to stay as long as we could. But he kept acting out and getting more and more bored and frustrated. 

But he is in an HCC school this year. Sorry I'm tearing up. He's happy every day. Every day is awesome. Every day is fantastic. And Riker graduated from his speech therapy, but there are so many kids who are highly capable but have IEPs, so they can't leave their schools.

[00:08:33] Gloria Ramirez (with translator): I come here with a respectful petition, asking for information that is available, beforehand, at the right time, so it's also in Spanish or in different languages. There's so many times where we get this information from other sources, like social media, but not from the district directly and in our own language. And such important matters as programs being shut down. And this is institutional racism to have this information in a timely manner and through the right channels.  

[00:09:34] Kristine Highlander: In any given neighborhood elementary school, the proportion of HC kids who are disciplined is commonly 7 to 20 times higher than the general student body. While at HC schools, the disciplinary rates are the same as the district's average. HC kids are more frequently disciplined than most other demographic groups at five of the eight middle schools that were never HC pathway schools, and the discipline rates of HC kids is notably lower at the middle schools that were previously HCC. These numbers are not evidence of unruly students, but rather of a district that does not provide enough academic rigor to HC students in neighborhood schools. 

[00:10:12] Janis White: my 2e son, now a college sophomore, was considered dangerous as an elementary student because of his behavior. He wasn't allowed to access advanced academics because he's autistic. When his academic needs weren't met, his behavior resulted in him being restrained, being put into isolation, running away from school, having the police called on him, and refusing to attend school for months at a time. 

Because of my family's privilege, we were able to sue and get him access to the advanced academics he needs, starting in 7th grade. And once we did that, he never had another behavioral incident. Not one. Please don't forget this very vulnerable group of students. 

[00:10:52] Jen Elliott Blake: My third grader who once had a joy for learning and was eager and excited to go to school is bored and unchallenged. He started being bullied this year and has lost his drive for learning. Our family doesn't have the financial means to place him in private school or to “move to another city” as was suggested by a member of this district's advanced learning staff. 

I know you will hear from a lot of parents in the North on this issue tonight, but I want you to know there are parents like me who reside in West and South Seattle and are just as disappointed and frustrated that this school district is choosing to restrict our children from having access to learning opportunities that allow them to thrive and reach their greatest potential. 

[00:11:27] Leanne Thompson: After reaching out to Senator Pedersen for help on this topic, I did receive an email from someone at the district acknowledging SPS's legal obligation to provide these services, and in that email he stated, and I quote, “we are currently PLANNING to implement these services in students home schools”. In other words, these services have not been implemented, and these students are not receiving their basic education. 

I followed up asking for a timeline of when these services would be implemented and what resources will be given to our wonderful administrators and teachers who will provide these services. I was faced with radio silence. 

[00:12:06] Isaac Naranjo Lopez: My classmates and I made up posters to put around our schools about the importance of immigrants in our country and our schools. We need more education in schools about our rights and what to do if we get in a situation with ICE. 

The second thing I'd like to talk about is about transportation.I live right on the edge of the two mile range, so I don't qualify for a school bus. I wouldn't mind walking, but my area is not safe, because there's always something going on. Where I live, there have been shootings, people doing drugs, and kids getting jumped. This happens when it's dark and in broad daylight. It scares me and my family for my safety. There is a bus that goes right by my house, but it won't stop for me and the other students who live near. We need more flexible transportation so students feel safe going to school,  

[00:13:02] Christie Robertson: In these clips, you heard from the following testifiers:

[00:13:06] Stacia Bell: Michelle Whalen

[00:13:07] Stephanie Govien: Heather Hewlett

[00:13:08] Gloria Ramirez: Gloria Ramirez 

[00:13:09] Interpreter: Jairo Wayman. interpreting tonight for Spanish. 

[00:13:10] Kristine Highlander: Kristine Highlander, 

[00:13:11] Janis White: Janis White 

[00:13:12] Jen Elliott Blake: Jen Elliott Blake 

[00:13:13] Leanne Thompson: Leanne Thompson  

[00:13:17] Isaac Naranjo Lopez: Isaac Naranjo Lopez, 

[00:13:18] Christie Robertson: What struck me was how many of these issues connect back to what we were saying earlier about systemic indifference.  

Here's another example in Julie Schneider's testimony about option school enrollment.

[00:13:33] Julie Schneider: For this school year, the district did not assign more than 800 elementary and K-8 students to the school of their choice, despite the fact that these schools had room to accommodate many more students. Further, these schools appear to have been intentionally under-enrolled when compared with the district's purple book and building capacity. 

[00:13:58] Jasmine Pulido: And this ties directly to what one of our listeners, Kaitlin Murdock, shared in an email about Pathfinder K-8 in West Seattle. 

[00:14:04] Christie Robertson: Yeah, it sounds like the district predicted that Pathfinder would need three kindergarten classes, but then they never moved kids off the waitlist. They didn't even start calling families until late July, and then by the time school started, the classes were too small.

[00:14:18] Jasmine Pulido: By October, one class had to be split and a teacher was reassigned, creating unnecessary disruptions for students and staff.

[00:14:25] Christie Robertson: Kaitlin later found out that the decision not to move the waitlist was actually made back in February, without any public discussion, and she wrote in to us responding to something that Director Rankin had said in the school board meeting.

[00:14:38] Liza Rankin: When we have fewer students and large amounts of empty space in our buildings, capacity is not in physical space, it's in staffing. So the option schools that are saying, "you're not letting kids in; there's plenty of room,"... If a new classroom is opened, that takes a classroom teacher away from a neighboring school. 

[00:15:03] Jasmine Pulido: Kaitlin is saying that's not the whole story. This was a leadership decision made behind closed doors, and it's not being daylighted and discussed.

[00:15:12] Christie Robertson: These kinds of decisions affect real families, teachers, and students. And there just seems to be an indifference to this that we see year after year. One of my favorite series that we did right at the beginning of Seattle Hall Pass was interviews with parents and teachers at schools that were impacted by the October shuffle in 2023, where teachers are moved around after the October 1st headcount to where the students land enrollment-wise. And the impact was huge on elementary kids all over the city.

[00:15:47] Jasmine Pulido: What we're seeing in these testimonies is a pattern of families desperately trying to get the district to acknowledge and address their concerns about what's happening on the ground, whether it's about highly capable services, language access, or enrollment policies. And instead they're being met with silence or bureaucratic responses.

The other testimony that really stood out was from Dr. Elizabeth Ramirez Ariola, who spoke about the superintendent's contract extension, given that the enrollment study confirmed that students of color were leaving at higher rates. 

[00:16:19] Elizabeth Ramirez Arreola: Communities of color have been historically underserved and disenfranchised, particularly those with language barriers. Students of color graduate at lower percentages compared to their white peers. Many college students are not prepared to succeed in the more demanding college courses. And I know this because I am a college professor. In addition, students of color are underrepresented in Highly Capable, as shown in today's Highly Capable update.  

It is worth acknowledging that two of the priorities of the current strategic plan are high quality instruction and learning experiences, and inclusive and authentic engagement. However, the recent enrollment study presentation shows the number one motivator for families to leave the district is concern about the quality of education. This is directly connected to the district's leadership ability to progress towards meeting school board goals. 

One proposed exploration area is why students of color leave at a higher rate. This is directly connected to the school district's engagement with community of color. 

Therefore, I urge the school board, as our elected officials and community representatives, to discuss publicly and openly, before your vote on the superintendent’s contract extension, whether the strategic plan goals or guardrails have been honored, and what the path forward for our district is. 

[00:17:43] Christie Robertson: So, a really interesting call from her to ask that community be engaged to see if the current vision and values have been met before renewing Superintendent Jones' contract again. 

So that leads us to talk about the renewal of the contract. 

Feb 12th School Board Meeting: Superintendent's contract

[00:18:01] Christie Robertson: I don't know if you remember, but it wasn't that long ago, in October, that they actually extended his contract until June 2026.

[00:18:08] Jasmine Pulido: Director Rankin explained that the old way of doing things was that the superintendent's contract would be renewed automatically, in perpetuity. And in this new way of doing it, the board would have to proactively vote to renew it. 

And Gina Topp explained that the board is required to renew the contract every January, up to three years out.

[00:18:29] Christie Robertson: But I think Director Rankin wasn't quite expecting it to come up this January, because here's what she said about it.

[00:18:36] Liza Rankin: For me personally, given that the current contract was just approved in October for a time through June of 2026, I am not comfortable considering an extension at this point. I would prefer that we could consider it again in June or even a year from now. And I will be voting No.

[00:18:57] Christie Robertson: And she wasn't alone. The final vote was four to two with one abstention.

[00:19:02] Jasmine Pulido: Yeah, and Director Mizrahi had an interesting response to the concerns. 

[00:19:07] Joe Mizrahi: The question that I've been asking myself is, “What gives us the greatest chance of meeting the goals that we just passed at the last meeting?” And to me, giving Dr Jones and his team the runway to actually execute those goals, and put a plan into place, and see it through... I think is the right move. And I think that will give us the greatest opportunity to meet those goals. And I think any turnover, or even folks looking a year ahead and seeing potential turnover, I think would be very harmful for us meeting those goals.

[00:19:37] Christie Robertson: I see his point, but also, there's been several years of runway on the previous strategic plan, which has not borne great results, as we've discussed. So when the runway starts is an important question.

[00:19:52] Jasmine Pulido: Let's not forget what we saw in the progress monitoring presentation. After five years of supposedly focusing on improving reading scores, we're still seeing declines.

[00:20:04] Christie Robertson: Yeah, so we have clear data that vulnerable students aren't meeting academic goals. 

[00:20:12] Jasmine Pulido: Yeah, the contrast between the urgency to extend this contract and the lack of urgency around student outcomes is pretty striking.

[00:20:18] Christie Robertson: When they called the roll, the four Yes votes came from Directors Mizrahi, Clark, Hersey, and President Topp, while Directors Rankin and Briggs voted no, and Director Sarju abstained.

[00:20:31] Jasmine Pulido: Totally not surprised about that abstention. That seems to be Director Sarju's thing as of late. 

Feb 12th School Board Meeting: Curriculum Embedded Assessments

[00:20:37] Christie Robertson: Okay, Jazz, should we even talk about the progress monitoring part of the meeting?

[00:20:41] Jasmine Pulido: There's not much actual progress to monitor. There was no data. 

[00:20:46] Christie Robertson: Yeah, they said they didn't have any new data. But we still did get a long presentation about what they called “Curriculum Embedded Assessments”, CEAs. Let's have Director Rankin explain what this actually means. 

[00:21:00] Liza Rankin: Curriculum Embedded Assessment sounds very ominous, but it's a unit test. you know, you get to the end of a unit... I remember doing that in school. 

[00:21:08] Jasmine Pulido: So why did we spend so much time on this when there are some pretty serious other concerns on the table?

[00:21:15] Christie Robertson: Like maybe the budget? Superintendent Jones had promised... Well, he had IMPLIED that he was going to bring more details on the budget to this meeting. But there actually was no mention of the budget at the whole meeting! And there's only a couple more meetings left for it to be buttoned up. 

Actually, Jaz, if you go onto the district's page about budget development for 25-26, it lays out all the steps that have been gone through. And then it has the January meeting on there. And then the next thing that's on there is May.

[00:21:50] Jasmine Pulido: Oh my gosh.

[00:21:51] Christie Robertson: And they have to vote on it in June!

[00:21:54] Jasmine Pulido: Oh, gosh. So we're not going to hear about it until May. Is that what it means? 

[00:21:58] Christie Robertson: That's what it seems like. And we'll talk about that a little more when we get to listener comments.

[00:22:03] Jasmine Pulido: Yeah, and while they didn't focus on that at this presentation, what they did focus on is the silver lining, which is that we're less behind than other districts.

[00:22:13] Christie Robertson: Woohoo! After five years of focusing on reading scores for African American males and students of color furthest from educational justice in third grade, not only are we not seeing any improvement, we're seeing declines. 

[00:22:27] Jasmine Pulido: Yeah, 

[00:22:27] Christie Robertson: But hey, we have a new assessment system.

[00:22:30] Jasmine Pulido: Which schools are struggling to implement.

[00:22:33] Christie Robertson: And I'm so confused about how they talked about this, because the whole idea of moving advanced learning into the neighborhood schools is supposed to be about having students at different levels in the same classroom. How does that work if they're trying to standardize everything?

[00:22:49] Jasmine Pulido: I don't know. They did try to address that. Dr. Perkins said something about how it's not about lockstep instruction.

[00:22:55] Christie Robertson: Yes, here are Mike Starosky, the Assistant Superintendent of Academics, and Caleb Perkins, the executive Director of College and Career Readiness.

[00:23:07] Mike Starosky: The first thing that comes to mind about what you're speaking to is that we're not expecting our educators on Tuesday, to everyone to be in the same lockstep. And also recognizing that even within school buildings and grade levels, people are going to be at different places for different reasons. And that's why we're providing a window. And so it's a three week window that we're asking our educators to try to get into somewhere, somehow. 

[00:23:35] Caleb Perkins: I'll just chime in briefly that a theme tonight has been the importance of differentiated instruction. So this is absolutely not about lockstep.  From our first round of Math CEA, we learned that students in Math 7 were having trouble computing unit rates involving fractions. For example: “I ran 1/3 of a mile in 1/2 hour. What is my rate in miles per hour?” In certain classrooms students weren't getting that. In other classrooms they were, and they were able to move faster or move beyond. It is a key to differentiation is to have this data. But no it does not mean lockstep.

[00:24:07] Christie Robertson:  They talked about how different classrooms might be in different places (by up to 3 weeks), but what about the different students within each classroom? That's supposed to be the whole point of the differentiation model.

[00:24:16] Jasmine Pulido: And meanwhile, the completion data showed schools are struggling just to keep up with basic pacing. So if students aren't getting what they need at grade level, what happens to the ones who need more challenge?

Feb 12th School Board Meeting: Enrollment Study

[00:24:28] Christie Robertson: And it turns out that's a huge part of why families are leaving SPS. Concerns about education quality and limited access to advanced curriculum are two of the biggest reasons families pulled their kids out of the district.

[00:24:41] Jasmine Pulido: First I want to say, “duh”. Like, “oh, so education is why they're leaving? Oh!”

[00:24:47] Christie Robertson: “Oh uh, wait. What are the point of schools again? Oh right, education.”

[00:24:50] Jasmine Pulido: Anyway maybe that's a good lead into the enrollment study results. 

[00:24:53] Christie Robertson: So we now have a bigger, clearer picture of what's keeping families in Seattle Public Schools, and what's driving them away.

Let's start with what's working. Why are families staying in SPS? The top reasons were:

• a strong sense of community and belonging, 
• proximity, so just being close to the school and friends, that makes total sense. 

[00:25:14] Jasmine Pulido: Families stay when they feel connected to teachers, to friends, to their school community.

[00:25:19] Christie Robertson: And let's talk about the biggest reasons families are leaving. The top issues cited by those families were:

• concerns over the quality of education, 
• funding issues, and 
• overcrowding and large class sizes.

[00:25:34] Jasmine Pulido: Those seem really connected to each other. And here's the thing. These have been the same concerns for years.

[00:25:41] Christie Robertson: So, like, what does concerns about education quality even mean? 

[00:25:45] Jasmine Pulido: The study actually broke it down into key issues:

• large class sizes, 
• teacher turnover, 
• curriculum concerns, and 
• lack of advanced coursework.

[00:25:55] Christie Robertson: And when you look at that, so much of it ties back to large class sizes. Overcrowding means teachers are stretched too thin. Kids don't get individualized support, and schools struggle to offer the full range of programs families want.

[00:26:12] Jasmine Pulido: And class sizes – they're a direct result of the budget crisis, which comes from chronic underfunding from the state.

[00:26:20] Christie Robertson: SPS literally don't have the funding to staff schools at the level that families actually want and need. Washington State just keeps failing to fund education.

[00:26:31] Jasmine Pulido: Here's another really interesting take away from the study. Families across different demographics mostly agreed on these concerns. The one big outlier – students of color are leaving SPS at higher rates.

[00:26:46] Christie Robertson: That was so interesting to me, because it seems to contradict the way that some folks in the district have been dismissing families who leave as just, like, privileged white parents. 

[00:26:51] Jasmine Pulido: Agreed. And no one seemed to comment at all about this pretty striking fact. Not even staff, when given a chance to. 

[00:26:56] Christie Robertson: It was almost like they couldn't hear that. 

And we also need to talk about the Kindergarten enrollment crisis. Because that's a massive red flag for SPS's future.

[00:27:13] Jasmine Pulido: Right, fewer and fewer families are even starting with SPS.

[00:27:19] Christie Robertson: I heard this stat a while ago, and it really shocked me: for every 100 kids born in Seattle, only 53 enrolled in SPS Kindergarten in 23-24. Which is a huge drop from 2018-19. when 64 out of 100 enrolled. So that's like a drop of 11 percentage points.

[00:27:38] Jasmine Pulido: Yeah, that's a huge shift. And it sounds like once families opt out, they don't come back.

[00:27:44] Christie Robertson: That's what the data show. SPS seems to be losing trust before families even try this system.

[00:27:51] Jasmine Pulido: Yikes.

Where did this study even come from?

[00:27:51] Christie Robertson: Okay, so this was funded by a $100,000 state grant. And the district used it to hire a public affairs firm called Strategies 360. They do a lot of work in education policy, and they partnered with some MIT researchers and SPS staff to conduct the survey.

[00:28:14] Jasmine Pulido: They surveyed families from October to December 2024 over cell phones, landlines, and text. The survey was offered in English, plus the top five other languages spoken by SPS families.

[00:28:29] Christie Robertson: They conducted some longer interviews, and then they used AI sentiment analysis to process responses. I thought that was like a really cool use of AI. They could answer in their own words, and the AI helped pull out some of the key themes. 

[00:28:45] Jasmine Pulido:  The presenter mentioned that what they did for the AI was that they had a human review everything on the front end and the back end, and then the AI analysis was in the middle, doing the categorization basically. So I liked hearing that thoroughness in the study.

[00:29:01] Christie Robertson: Yes, that's great.

[00:29:02] Jasmine Pulido: That's all good, because they do need real answers if they want to turn enrollment around. But as we all want to know, will they actually do anything with this data? 

[00:29:11] Christie Robertson: Well, it'll be interesting to see. They didn't say anything about coming back with a strategy to address the issues. 

[00:29:18] Jasmine Pulido: No. 

[00:29:19] Christie Robertson: I guess if parents are telling you that they're leaving because the class sizes are too big and the schools are underfunded, it's hard to know what to do about that, besides tell your legislators.

[00:29:30] Jasmine Pulido: Strategies 360 did give specific recommendations including 

1. Focus on a more broadly shared concern over improving educational quality over any one specific service program. 
2. Engagement with early learners, especially focusing on making sure the rates of children born in Seattle corresponds as closely as possible to the rate of attendance in pre k. 
3. Engagement with community around curriculum and instruction related to quality and challenging academics.
4. A task force to find out what is happening for students of color.

Feb 12 School Board Meeting: HCC Update

[00:30:13] Jasmine Pulido: All right, let's talk about the highly capable services update because that is obviously on a lot of people's minds.

[00:30:21] Christie Robertson: This presentation was given by Dr. Rocky Torres Morales, who is just back from paternity leave. And the presentation is something the board has been asking for for a long time. And parents have been asking for for much longer. But honestly, it didn't actually answer any questions.

[00:30:42] Jasmine Pulido: Yeah, and actually, that wasn't lost on the school board directors. We sat through maybe an hour of slides? 

[00:30:44] Christie Robertson: It was long.

[00:30:45] Jasmine Pulido: But we still don't know what services are actually happening, how schools are held accountable, or what parents are supposed to do if their kids aren't getting the support they need.

[00:31:00] Christie Robertson: Rankin definitely expressed some of the frustration that I was feeling listening to this empty presentation. 

[00:31:07] Liza Rankin: I am like crawling out of my skin right now, because I cannot stand that I am here after being part of this conversation for over a decade, listening to the same presentation and having to just rehash what we already know to be true, and nothing's changing. And it's... the conversation started with saying that the board directed this extra thing in policy. It is not extra. It's what's in state law. So I'm... I've been gaslit over this for two years. And I just have to say it out loud so that we can be clear, so I can stop being told that the opposite of what is in law is what we're supposed to do. 

But I am here every month for two and a half, three more years. Maybe. Because this is absolutely demoralizing and exhausting to feel like I'm just repeating and treading water. And it's not worth the sacrifice that my family has had to make for me to be here, to have it be so disregarded.

[00:32:18] Christie Robertson: We've been hearing these same kinds of answers for years. And meanwhile, families are still testifying that nothing is actually changing on the ground.

[00:32:28] Jasmine Pulido: Yeah, what exactly is the district saying it's doing?

[00:32:31] Christie Robertson: Here's Dr. Torres Morales.

[00:32:33] Rocky Torres-Morales: The cohort model still exists with instruction at two years ahead. It is the same curriculum that we would use in the neighborhood school, but at the two years ahead. In the neighborhood school what you would see is differentiation and universal design for learning, in depth and complexity.

Each school needs to have a CSIP to explain how they will deliver those services for those students, and they are held accountable to that CSIP. 

Additionally, in the current model, one of the big differences was the universal screening. So now at this point, every student gets screened regardless, and then based on that, that's how you qualify for services. 

[00:33:09] Jasmine Pulido: And remind me what a CSIP is.

[00:33:12] Christie Robertson: That is the Continuous School Improvement Plan. Basically, it's a five year vision and implementation plan that each of our 105 schools comes up with. It's a bit formulaic, but they have sections that they're supposed to fill out about how certain things look like at their school.

[00:33:29] Jasmine Pulido: And that's where they are supposed to describe how they're implementing advanced learning?

[00:33:33] Christie Robertson: Yes, according to the district. And there is actually an Advanced Learning section in every CSIP. But I've looked at a number of them now, and they're basically just the same empty words that the district has, with no actual plans or checking back in to see if things are working. Here's basically what you will see in almost every CSIP 

"For our students in need of advanced learning services, we will provide differentiated instruction, utilizing strategies like flexible grouping, small group instruction, enhancement to grade level curriculum, and acceleration in depth and complexity, based on the needs of each student."

That sounds good, right Jas?

[00:34:16] Jasmine Pulido: Oh my gosh. I remember reading this based on identification from my own kid. And we were all... I was talking to other parents about it and we were like, “What does this mean?” And then we asked the school, “What does this mean?” They're like, “They're not doing it.”

[00:34:27] Christie Robertson: Yeah. You ask any teacher...

[00:34:29] Jasmine Pulido: Any teacher. And they'll say, “The district is actively not helping us.” Yeah, so no wonder teachers are like, “Where's the curriculum? Where's the professional team? Where's my instructional aide, my extra planning time?”

[00:34:41] Christie Robertson: Yeah. It's not in there. And it's clear from everything we've heard that none of that is happening.

[00:34:48] Jasmine Pulido: Where's the... Um, what did they call it? “Advanced learning specialist”?

[00:34:52] Christie Robertson: Here's Dr. Torres Morales talking with Director Hersey.

[00:34:57] Rocky Torres-Morales: There are resources that we can push in, in terms of Advanced Learning Specialists, which are teachers on assignment that work and go into classrooms. They currently exist in our current model, but they go in there to work with the teacher to specifically address little Brandon's needs. 

[I can’t find any record of this position or terminology on the SPS webpage - CR]

[00:35:10] Jasmine Pulido: And meanwhile, SPS keeps emphasizing universal screening as a big success. And sure enough, the percentage of students at SPS who qualify for highly capable services keeps going up. So in 2019, 9.2% of SPS students identified as highly capable. And then 2024, 12.3%.

[00:35:32] Christie Robertson: So 9.2% to 12.3% in five years. How do you have an increasing... like,how do you set the bar... How does this work? I'm confused.

[00:35:42] Jasmine Pulido: Very arbitrary.

[00:35:44] Christie Robertson: Yeah. And then, it has gotten more racially diverse, which is great. But if you're not actually providing services to these kids by expanding resources, staffing, or training, what is the point of identifying them?

[00:35:58] Jasmine Pulido: Jie Lei talked quite a bit about this in her episode if you want to hear that.

[00:36:02] Christie Robertson: That was a great episode

[00:36:03] Jasmine Pulido: I already linked it in show notes.

[00:36:04] Christie Robertson: Great. At one point, Dr. Torres Morales made the contention that the Multi-Tiered System of Supports will provide a way to provide advanced learning. 

[00:36:16] Rocky Torres-Morales: Fully develop Multi-Tiered System of Supports. Which means, “How do we support our kids when they need it?” Whether it's accelerated learning, whether it is intervention, whether it is enrichment. That foundation comes from having a functional MTSS system district wide.

[00:36:30] Jasmine Pulido: Okay, so there's another acronym, MTSS. Tell me about it.

[00:36:35] Christie Robertson: Yeah, so Multi-Tiered System of Supports is a model of helping address student difficulties at a level that's less intense than special education. From my understanding, it's basically a bunch of teachers getting together to talk through student individualities and make plans to address them. It's a great idea in concept, and from what I've heard from teachers, it can be a great idea in practice as well. But I've never heard it being used for anything as comprehensive as advanced learning. And from what I understand, the implementation is very spotty.

[00:37:09] Jasmine Pulido: Okay, so Director Briggs did point out that SPS has been trying to fully implement MTSS since 2011.  

[00:37:17] Evan Briggs: The board directed SPS to implement MTSS in 2011. And it is now 2025. And we still don't have it fully implemented. And it points to a chronic issue, I think, in this district of ideas and words on paper and then a failure to implement. And so the fact that MTSS, after 14 years, still hasn't been implemented, it... You can understand why people are really doubtful that we will implement a successful neighborhood model. And I know that was before your time, Rocky, before my time too. So I'm not saying you bear responsibility for that. It's an institutional problem that we have.  

[00:38:03] Christie Robertson: Oh my god, it is. I distinctly remember sitting in an auditorium and listening to Wyeth Jessee, who was the head of special education back when my kid was in first grade, nine years ago, talking about how MTSS was coming. And we, like, weren't going to need special education anymore, and kids were all going to be served in their classrooms. And I was just, like, bowing down to him. I was like, “This sounds so awesome! I cannot wait until my kid gets to experience this!”

[00:38:35] Jasmine Pulido: Oh, yikes. 

[00:38:36] [00:38:36] Christie Robertson: They've also been theoretically trying to implement advanced learning in neighborhood schools since 2021, when they were given the mandate from the board to discontinue the highly capable cohort.

Director Hersey basically said what I was thinking. 

[00:38:48] Brandon Hersey: I think in addition to the data, when you bring it forward, a very realistic and honest timeline from your perspective of how long it would take to implement at every school, right? And if that's a decade, it's a decade. You know what I'm saying? Then that comes back to the board to say, “It's not quick enough.” Then we need to have hard conversations about, again, what we are willing to do to expedite that process?

This is all interconnected. I think that it's easy for us to say, “Oh, the district is not providing X, Y, and Z.” And don't get it twisted – in many cases and respects, they're not. 

At the same time, I don't believe that we are holding up our end of the bargain and really doing our side of the work as a board to be brave and say, “Look, we're not going to do X, so that we can do Y.” And we need to be unapologetic about what our priorities are.

We are in a financial crisis. We can't afford to do everything. We just can't. We can do everything, but it's not going to be well done. So we need to be really clear and pick what it is that we are going to do well, and be really honest with ourselves with what we can't afford to do as well as other things. I think that's a hard conversation, it's unpopular, but like that, that in and of itself is governance, right? 

[00:40:11] [00:38:36] Christie Robertson: Yeah, so it's like, we want to focus on bringing up reading and math scores, and maybe the district can't afford to do what it takes right now to provide highly capable services in neighborhood schools the way they promised they would.

And it's not their fault if they can't provide highly capable services in neighborhood schools.  But to me, what IS their fault is if they refuse to face up to the fact that they are failing to implement it, and they continue to just gaslight the board and the community and say, “No, it's really there, you're just not looking hard enough.”

[00:40:53] Jasmine Pulido: Yeah, honestly, if that's the case, then why are we ending the cohort model? If they can't guarantee neighborhood schools can provide these services, then shouldn't we keep the cohort option open? Which is basically what all the parents are saying in their testimony. 

[00:41:11] Christie Robertson: And it's funny, because it doesn't really seem like that's something they're entertaining at all. Does it?

[00:41:17] Jasmine Pulido: Well, Director Rankin did say that she doesn't want to entertain the idea of keeping the cohort. 

[00:41:21] Liza Rankin: I don't want anybody walking away thinking, “Oh, Director Rankin wants to revert back to 2019, and we just continue on.” We can't do that. That would be such a disservice to the parents and students and educators and advocates that worked for so long to demand that more students have access to highly capable services and that it doesn't require that you leave your community to access it.

[00:41:31] Christie Robertson: You know, in some ways I feel like Director Rankin did not know what to do with the fact that she can see that it's not working in neighborhood schools, and she also cannot accept to keep the cohort. And so she's, like, going back and forth. And what she really wants to have happen is for them to bring back a presentation in two months that says that it's actually working.

[00:41:44] Jasmine Pulido: The other thing that is confusing to me is that those conversations that were happening were referring to the fact that the cohort model was racially inequitable. And we just talked about the way that universal screening addresses that, if it were to actually execute the actual services once they're identified. How does that not change the conversation in regards to cohorts?  

The other part of that I'm thinking about is that she said that she benefited from having an alternative learning environment where, like, in her own words “weird kids can go and not feel weird.”

[00:42:41] Liza Rankin: What people found that they're afraid of losing is a place where their kids aren't the weird ones. And I say that as a weird kid. At Laurelhurst Elementary School in the 80s, everybody else sat in clusters. I had a desk against the wall. Because I was a delight to have in class, but I could be disruptive at times, and I was “oh so energetic”. That was code for, “there's something wrong with you, we don't have time for you, we don't want to deal with you.” 

And so when you have parents coming here saying, “please do not take that away from my kid,” they're responding to the fact that their kid felt weird and bad about themselves in one of our schools. And that the cohort has given them a place where they're accepted by the adults. Because this is not just a kid bullying issue. This is an adult issue about how children who are different are treated. And this applies to much more than highly capable. 

So I just want to be really clear that the fear that you're hearing from people about “my kid has a place where they belong and that's going to go away,” is a real fear. What they need, what they have found, is a place where their kid is seen as a whole person. And every single one of our students deserves to have that space. No matter what neighborhood they live in. 

So yeah, I just wanted to clarify – I'm not saying “pause it”, but let's have real, honest conversations. We don't want perfection; we want honesty, transparency, and progress.

[00:44:13] Jasmine Pulido: I actually feel like that's a testament to option schools. It's like the whole point of option schools. I just, I don't understand what she's processing right now. I don't understand what she's saying exactly. I think maybe she's having some cognitive dissonance.

[00:44:25] Christie Robertson: I think she's having some cognitive dissonance. And, remember that Sarah Clark and our superintendent, Brent Jones, also say that they got a lot out of the advanced learning that they were at.

[00:44:36] Jasmine Pulido: Yeah, and I thought I heard Director Rinkin say that she was a twice-exceptional student. And I know she was an SPS student, and she's talking about going to this other model. Is she saying that she was part of the cohort model and benefited from it?

[00:44:50] Christie Robertson: I think she's saying she was twice exceptional (and if you're not familiar with this term, “twice exceptional” is kind of this weird terminology that means “identified as having disabilities and also identified as needing advanced coursework”), but I don't know if she actually went to any of those schools, or if she was just kind of pushed at a desk against the wall.

[00:45:06] Jasmine Pulido: Director Rankin brings up a lot of concerns that I think a lot of people are saying, which is “We've seen this presentation about a bajillion times and nothing different has happened. So we just want to know: What timeline are you going to implement these services and what is the plan?”

And Dr. Torres Morales says "the HC services are working for some schools." 

[00:45:35] Rocky Torres-Morales: I would not go to a place of "the neighborhood school model is not working". We have plenty of evidence that points to where it is working. What we do know, though, Is it universally working? Is every single school making it to what we would expect? I think that's the question. Because we do have evidence of some schools that are doing it, and doing it very well. 

[00:45:54] Christie Robertson: That's the first I've ever heard of it.

[00:45:56] Jasmine Pulido: Yeah. I was very curious to hear. Okay, so tell us what schools?

[00:46:00] Christie Robertson: This was supposed to be their big presentation, and they didn't even say the names of the schools or what they were seeing. 

And them saying that the successes are “uneven”? That's not what we've been hearing. We're hearing it's not happening anywhere. So, they really have a lot to prove if they're going to say that it is working in some places.

[00:46:23] Jasmine Pulido: I could understand the idea of, okay if it's working for you, you're not going to testify. 

[00:46:30] Christie Robertson: Yeah. 

[00:46:31] Jasmine Pulido: I can understand that, but why not give any of that data when you spent like an hour giving a presentation that these school board directors already have seen before? That doesn't make any sense to me.

[00:46:40] Christie Robertson: Yeah. The big slide was, like, three boxes, with the first box being "cohort model", the second box being "half cohort model, half in the schools", and the third box being "all highly capable in the schools." That provides no information.

[00:46:56] Jasmine Pulido: No, not at all. And Director Colin Bragg, our student representative, said, “wait, so you have these three boxes here, but one of them says ‘this is currently what we're doing,’ but we just heard in testimony that's not what we're currently doing. So if we're not currently doing that, then we shouldn't say that. And also we shouldn't then end it to do the next thing.”

[00:47:19] Colin Bragg: You talk a lot about the current model and the future policy model. But I cannot imagine the transition to the future model without the current model even working. The students currently in there who are experiencing what's currently happening, it’s just going to get worse and worse when you try to transition to that new model without addressing that it works first. And also having more concrete of that future plan and how that's going to transition. And that just... it wasn't in this presentation.

You just can't ask them to approve this without knowing that. And I just... I do also want to know if there is more of a plan to make sure that the current model is actually happening.

[long pause]

[00:48:07] Rocky Torres-Morales: Yes, and that's what will be brought forward prior to April 1st.  

[00:48:11] Christie Robertson: Is it just me or does Rocky sound a little pissed to be spoken to that way by a student? 

[00:48:17] Jasmine Pulido: They went next to Director Sarju.

[00:48:20] Christie Robertson: And what did she say?

[00:48:21] Michelle Sarju: I don't want another presentation. That is the President's purview to approve what happens, but I'm going to tell you: I'm going to get up and walk out if we have another one of these presentations. This is the same model year after year, decade after decade. What the parents want to know is how are their children who are in the highly capable program going to receive services? It's not complex. 

I'm not against “dismantling” of the cohort model, but I can't support the dismantling of a cohort model without a coherent, implementable plan that works for kids.

[00:49:09] Christie Robertson: School board directors, I usually refrain, but somebody make a motion to keep the cohort until it's clear that the services are being provided in the school. And continue to work on making those services equitable across the district and across different kinds of students until we have a plan that is working that can move us toward bringing them into the schools.

[00:49:39] Jasmine Pulido: Oh yeah, and here it is, community. If you want that to happen, email your school board directors and tell them specifically: Make a motion.

[00:49:47] Christie Robertson: Make a motion.

[00:49:48] Jasmine Pulido: Oh, I do want to just add one thing, which is Director Jones did promise to come back. He actually did say, “I make a commitment of a date” in which they will come back with a plan for the board to review. And I will include it here. 

[00:50:04] Christie Robertson: And I'm going to include a sound bite of a can being kicked down the road. 

[00:50:11] Brent Jones: There's compliance issues, access issues, quality issues, service issues, and consistency issues that we want to make sure that we're addressing. And I hear clearly Director Rankin's desire to have clarity on the date, time of when the plan will be submitted. My commitment is April 1st as the date for that plan.

And so if that's a preview of that at the March meeting we can provide that. But the plan should be ready by March 1st. And Dr. Torres Morales if you can confirm that we're making a declaration right now. 

[00:50:50] Rocky Torres-Morales: Yes. 

[00:50:52] Christie Robertson: So that clarity on the date/time is April 1st, but ready by March 1st and making a declaration right now of March 1st. I think.

[00:51:07] Jasmine Pulido: Director Briggs pointed out that having the plan for highly capable services implementation by April 1st is too late when open enrollment closes before that. 

[00:51:18] Evan Briggs:  Having a plan by April 1st doesn't answer a lot of questions for families who need to make choices during the open enrollment period and who have been asking questions for a long time and not getting answers.  

[00:51:32] Christie Robertson: We will leave the highly capable report there.

Listener Feedback 

[00:51:36] Jasmine Pulido: All right, we've covered a lot today. Enrollment trends, highly capable services, and of course, another round of district vagueness, or is it evasiveness? But now let's get into some listener feedback.

[00:51:50] Christie Robertson: We love hearing from you. And we know that these topics hit home for a lot of families. So what's on people's minds?

Drew Frank emailed us some good questions. His first question was “given that we have this huge $100 million deficit, why hasn't SPS spelled out exactly what the budget cuts will mean for our schools as a way to help compel our legislators to act?”

[00:52:20] Jasmine Pulido: Drew wondered if a menu of potential cuts could highlight the impact of underfunding for legislators and the public. 

[00:52:30] Christie Robertson: Yeah, I had the exact same thought. Maybe they're trying to avoid causing unnecessary panic? Maybe it has something to do with having to talk to the teacher's union before they lay anything out? Or maybe it's more they don't want to deal with the outcry.

[00:52:40] Jasmine Pulido: Or maybe they just don't know. Maybe they don't know what their cuts are yet.

[00:52:44] Christie Robertson: Well, that's a very disturbing idea.

[00:52:46] Jasmine Pulido: If it is a panic thing, panic could create a stronger emotional response from legislators and the public, if we knew.

[00:52:54] Christie Robertson: Exactly. 

[00:52:56] Jasmine Pulido: And just more transparency. 

[00:52:58] Christie Robertson: As always, I feel like transparency is the better way to go. And I'm very frustrated about the lack of information on the real impacts that are going to happen if the legislature fails to come through with all the money that we need for our schools.

[00:53:11] Jasmine Pulido: So Drew also sent another question, this one about the district and the state's response to Trump's recent executive orders related to education. He's worried about curriculum corruption and the potential collapse of public schools.

[00:53:27] Christie Robertson: And I think he's not the only one worried. 

[00:53:29] Jasmine Pulido: Here's what Director Rankin had to say about it.

[00:53:33] Liza Rankin: As we react and respond to... I don't know what to call it... the swirl, the fire hose of things coming at the federal level, we will not be unaffected, of course. But it's important to note that executive orders don't apply to us. We operate under the authority of the state. 

And our state governor, attorney general, and OSPI have been really clear about maintaining and upholding our state law. And so until we hear differently, we're still committed to and part of our state's government. We are authorized to operate a public school district by the state.

[00:54:16] Christie Robertson: Let's talk about some of the concerns.

[00:54:17] Jasmine Pulido: First the potential pressure to corrupt the curriculum. So on the bright side, public K-12 schools in Washington state operate under state law and authority, overseen by locally elected school boards, which means the state has a degree of autonomy in setting curriculum standards.

[00:54:36] Christie Robertson: Yeah, that's a relief. I imagine there's still some concern about the soft influence of executive orders that say things like that there are only two genders, though.

And I've seen Trump's orders being brought up regularly in the state legislature as testifiers are backing up their opposition to state laws to protect trans kids.

[00:54:57] Jasmine Pulido: And what about the executive order impacting transgender athletes?

[00:55:01] Christie Robertson: That's right. An executive order was signed barring transgender athletes from participating in girls and women's sports and authorizing the education department to penalize schools that allow transgender athletes to compete.

[00:55:15] Jasmine Pulido: And what was the response?

[00:55:18] Christie Robertson: Well, Washington state law still prohibits discrimination based on gender identity. And as of now, the Washington Interscholastic Activities Association, which is the organization behind a lot of school sports, will still continue to follow the state law. So there's some protection there.

[00:55:41] Jasmine Pulido: Okay. And then Drew's also worried about funding. Could Trump force states to funnel public money to private and charter schools, potentially collapsing the public system?

[00:55:52] Christie Robertson: Or take away Title I funds for schools that serve kids in poverty? Or take away the funds from the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act that helps states serve kids with disabilities? Those are very real concerns. 

Yeah, one thing to remember is that Washington state relies largely on state funding for K-12 public schools, with only about 12% of funding coming from the federal government. That relative financial independence offers some protection. Although of course right now, 12% feels like an amount that we couldn't really give up. It would be incredibly hard to make up.

[00:56:35] Jasmine Pulido: What about the elimination of restrictions to ICE?

[00:56:39] Christie Robertson: I think the biggest thing that impacts schools is that the president eliminated the Department of Homeland Security policy that restricted ICE (Immigration and Customs Enforcement) at what they called “sensitive locations”. And that included schools.

[00:56:58] Jasmine Pulido: And what's been the response?

[00:57:00] Christie Robertson: Advocacy organizations and the state superintendent's office, in alignment with Washington State law and school board policy, those all maintain the rights of immigrant students to access public education. And I'm hearing a lot of them stand up and state that we are going to protect the students in our schools. But it is more complicated, given the fact that schools are no longer a “sensitive area”. 

And it's a very complicated situation that I'm not at all expert at. And so I want to point anybody who is interested in knowing more to a webinar from the League of Education Voters with a panel of leaders from different immigrant advocacy organizations with lots of information and resources. So I will put that link in the show notes. It's called “Supporting Our Immigrant and Refugee Students.”

[00:58:00] Jasmine Pulido: Okay, so Washington state has some legal frameworks and advocacy groups in place to offer a level of protection for public education. But that vigilance is key.

[00:58:12] Christie Robertson: Yeah, things seem to be changing on a daily basis and the district and the state need to stay very aware and responsive to changes at the federal level to safeguard public education in Seattle.

As an example, we recorded this episode at the beginning of midwinter break, and we are just getting it ready to publish at the end of midwinter break, and it already feels like a ton has changed in that time. 

[00:58:39] Jasmine Pulido: Drew, thanks for your question. And that's our very cursory understanding of the situation. We would love to have someone on with more expert information on this matter. Please let us know. 

[00:58:51] Christie Robertson: Thanks to our listeners for writing in. If you have anything you would like to share with us or think we should focus on, you can email us at hello@rainydayrecess.org. 

 This podcast was brought to you by Christie Robertson

[00:59:04] Jasmine Pulido: and Jasmine Pulido. you can visit our website at rainydayrecess.org to see our show notes. There is also a transcript available on our website.

[00:59:14] Christie Robertson: You can also subscribe so that you don't miss an episode or donate to help us fund our work.

[00:59:19] Jasmine Pulido: Yeah, we are a podcast independently run by two mothers, with children. So anything you can do to help fund us would be greatly appreciated. And if you enjoyed this episode, please rate or review us and help more people find the show.

[00:59:34] Christie Robertson: Thank you to Lester Mayo and the Manzana Movement for our theme music.

[00:59:38] Jasmine Pulido: Stay curious, stay cozy and join us next time for Rainy Day Recess.